Measuring

Measuring

"When we examine the text that supports our calling we can only find one thing that we are commissioned to do - develop people in a very specific life that reproduces Jesus' life in them and others.  If we are measuring anything else and finding satisfaction - even baptisms and hands raised for the sinner's prayer, we miss the mission."

My first reaction to this quote is uneasiness. The word develop jumped out at me and I started to feel like, "It is not my job to develop/manufacture anything in people's lives, it is the work of God in Christ by the Holy Spirit". My second reaction was that I better be careful how I impose my theologizing on Jesus. It seems to me that his words were something like… "Go and make disciples". So it seems that what I do or don't do has something to do with the strength and health of the kingdom of God.

How do we measure success? Should we measure success? Is it wrong to count baptisms? Is it wrong to ask people to raise their hand to pray the sinner's prayer? Is it wrong to count people? If we accept the scripture as God's very words to us (not in a verbal inspiration kind of way… for us Nazarene types) then counting people, baptisms, and decisions is pretty important. It sounds to me like those Pentecostal Christians were pretty excited about 3000 new members.

Measurement is important. It is important for a shepherd/pastor to look at his/her flock; to see if they are healthy; to see if they are reproducing; and to see if they are getting along. Hmmm… It doesn't take too long for the sheep analogy to break down.

While counting sheep is important, there are real dangers to be avoided. Bodies in pews/chairs does not necessarily mean that disciples are being made. Saying the sinner's prayer is not an incantation of magical words that guarantees new birth. The measurement of a pastor's success is a lot like the moving of the spirit; which is like the wind that blows where it will and we are not sure where it comes from or where it's going. It's kind of a mysterious thing and in a way we should love the endeavor, feel good about what God is doing, but having an uneasy security that we have not yet "attained all this" but find "satisfaction" in pursuing and building the kingdom of God.

But measuring is important especially to us as pastors. Measuring helps us to avoid blind spots. If fewer people are spending time learning the word of God together, it is good to know this. If no one ever "prays the sinner's prayer" this would be good to acknowledge. If a church is a group of saints who gather on Sunday morning but are not being "equipped for works of service", it is our role as prophets, teachers, pastors to do whatever we can to ensure that this equipping is happening.

What should we measure? Both quantitative and qualitative measurement is important. The first thing to measure is attendance at the worship service. There will be a good many who will throw up their hands in horror at my saying that this is the most important statistic within a local church. It is kind of like a doctor taking the temperature and blood pressure of a patient. If a patient's temperature is 98.6 and blood pressure is 110/60 it indicates a certain amount of health. The patient still could have cancer, but these are the first things a doctor looks at.

Generally speaking, if more people are coming to worship service, it is likely that more people love God enough to be close to his people. It is more likely that people are sharing in fellowship and have a sense of mission together. So attendance is the first indication of relative health and of any unhealthiness that may need attention.

Most of clergy are pastors of small churches and it is not hard to keep attendance. I kept individual worship attendance in all my churches, even when attendance was 200+. That may seem a bit creepy to some, but we would take time in staff meeting to look at the flock and consider the needs of the people we were seeking to lead. Some of the most effective pastoral work was done by 12 lay pastors who had 10 to 15 families each whom they prayed for and kept in touch with. The main question we would focus on as we gathered every six weeks or so was "How are people doing?".

Worship attendance is important, but it is obvious that posteriors deposited on pews can be very misleading as a sign of success in the endeavor of making disciples. Each year I would prepare a report, for my own information first of all, to share with the staff, church board and made available to the church as a whole. We would count the number of people who were studying the Bible with other Christians. The assumption was that people would tend to become better disciples if they did in fact spend time with other Christians learning what the Bible says about how we are to live as Christians. 

In the same way, we would count the number of people who had a place of fellowship in the church. It seems obvious as well if we are to reproduce the life of Jesus it will be evidenced in sharing redemptive, transformational fellowship with other disciples. We would count the number of people who had a place of ministry in the church and or community. The final quantitative measurement was giving. As a pastor I did not know what each individual gave but I knew how many giving units there were, and the level of these giving units each year. I would compare these quantitative "numbers" year to year as a measurement of how we were doing. Of course we would also count baptisms, new members, and new converts.

But all these numbers can be great and was still fall short of making disciples i.e. reproducing the life of Jesus in our members and in others outside the church. As a pastor, with staff, board, and lay pastors I would be scouting about for qualitative indications that there might be some disciples around. It is the anecdotal, observable indications of mercy, grace, love and commitment that are the confirmation and evidence that the kingdom of God is among us. All the quantitative measurement can appear positive, but if there is bickering, gossip, and disunity there is something less than discipleship happening.

So where do we as pastors find our satisfaction? We must find our satisfaction and security in the foundational reality of a personal, intimate, warm, grace full relationship with the God of the universe. It is not the evidence of outward success that fills the God shaped void in the heart, is our relationship with God. In the same way that which appears less than successful need not ever rob us of the joy and peace of this closeness to Him. One of Mike Ginese’s greatest quotes, "nothing you can do will ever make God love you more or love you less".

Finally a Facebook quote from Mike Schutz, not sure if it is his or someone else's:

Those days when I'm tempted to think well of myself because others do, and hate myself because others seem to, I am reminded to once again read the gospels. Folks loved Jesus, they hated Jesus, no matter. He still: loved them, told them the truth, and went to a cross for them. And after they killed him, he came back and messed with them some more. Gotta like the Man's style.

Random thoughts:  Ken Ardrey

Thoughts of a 20/30 Something Friend

To begin answering: It's connection. My age group is a wandering one. We are used to transient life-styles; whether it's moving for jobs or school; moving for relationships; or just transient in thinking. It is true that most of my group believes "whatever" is okay. We don't like to feel judged or that our lives can't be our own. And the way the modern church is presented to the world is: "you must radically change who you are, or you can't be accepted."


A lot of churches are not welcoming and can be cliquey. Grace is not practiced nor presented. Our generation has seen a lot of destruction and hate. That resonates with us. And although we may not show rebellion like our parents, we show acceptance and tolerance. That's what we desire.

We grew up as latchkey kids and in age of transforming technology. But yet, we are a generation who can easily look back on our childhoods and come together as a group with great commonness. Children of the 80's and 90's are a vastly different group of people than our parents. And we have LOTS of questions.

But as I first stated: we like connection. We like feeling we belong to something or someone. Hence looking back at common themes of our childhoods and we feel connected to another person. When I finally felt I could be a part of a church, it was because of connectedness. I felt that I could belong in the church body and possibly offer something to it. And also, being a part of a church where I am not judged or scolded because I may have done something "sinful"; such as sex before marriage or even getting drunk.

I love Christ. I love that his life was miraculous. I love that Christ was REAL and made the effort to connect with all people. The church does not represent the Christ I've read about in the Bible and the One I believe in and desperately want to follow.

I am not sure if that answers what you're seeking. And I may have other things to say as i re-read what you wrote. I also may not even represent the vast majority of my generation. I think my journey with Christ is an extremely unique one; I trained for ministry and at one point was highly involved in ministry. But I was also extremely hurt by the people of the church and I walked away for a long time. Yet, I came back when I allowed my heart to be open to the Holy Spirit and the guidance of it.

And now my prayer is: God, allow me to be open and not judging of the Church.

Old Person's Response

There is so much to think about in your response. You begin with connection. I am assuming that your thought is that people really need and desire connection with other people. I will try to avoid getting into the issue of whether virtual connections can substitute for face-to-face, real life, risk taking relationships. This is a very real issue and my bias is pretty evident in that statement.

From the Christian perspective (stepping back from the perspective of the institutional church) it is clear in Scripture that Christians need, dare I say are commanded?, Instructed?, At least more than advised… Christians need to be connected to other Christians.


Just from observation, I think your generation places more value on family and community than my generation. Even those who have had some uncertain and painful times in their family experience have a deep sense of family loyalty and affection. My kids are so much closer to each other than I am with my siblings.

The question you raise is, is it possible to be connected to other Christians without radically changing who we are?

Without a doubt, churches need to be more accepting, more shockproof, and willing to love, accept, and engage the myriad of lifestyles that are encountered. Jesus was totally accepting of the "whatever" people whom he encountered. They loved being around him. He was strongly criticized for the company he kept. I'm not sure if you have been to the Lowell Nazarene church. My dad built the church. I went to high school in Lowell. During my ENC days, we were in the streets, in the bars, in the emergency rooms with kids we knew, OD'd on drugs. Many of these kids came to faith and not only formed a community together but were also loved and accepted by old time Nazarene "church" type people. At high risk of idealizing the "good old days", this is the way the church should be.

At the same time Jesus did not accept the lifestyle of those who are down and out in sin (the adulterous woman, the dishonest tax collector, Mary Magdalene etc.). He was more than confrontive with the up and outer lifestyle as well (Nicodemus, the rich young ruler etc.).

I do think we need to be more tolerant of lifestyles that may be different than ours. Love and acceptance, however, does not mean affirmation of lifestyles that are not Christian. The whole gospel message is that by the grace of God, through Christ, by the Holy Spirit in us we are "radically changed (in) who we are".

You may ask well who is to say what is Christian and what is not Christian? This is a trap that results in never knowing anything for sure. So whatever I do, whatever I feel like, if I mess up, it's okay because I'm always trying to figure out what is Christian and what is not Christian and the only one who can know that for me is "me".

For example if you go out and get drunk my response is going to be "what the crap are you doing?” (First response) "I mean what the heck are you doing?" (Second response) "I mean what in the world are you doing?" (Pastoral response). And if anyone tells me that I need to be accepting of drunkenness because I need to show God's grace; my response is "yeah right".

On the other hand the Christ response is to love, respect, and accept any drunk, "living in sin", homosexual, atheist, or "whatever" person that God sends my way. Being in Christian community means that I love you too much to let you off the hook for alcohol abuse. Being in Christian community also means that you give others permission to be involved in areas of your life that may need guidance and correction.

My generation thought the previous generation was totally clueless. And in many ways they were. But we had much to learn from those who had faced life-and-death, the total depravity of the Holocaust, and wanton unrestrained bloodshed. We needed to listen to them. But they had a whole lot to learn from us as well.

In our day, more than ever, the church needs to be a place to listen and learn from one another. This begins with leadership. If I were to advise you on church shopping, which is a very annoying process, I would advise looking for a pastor and leadership were not afraid to consider/respond to ideas different than their own.

Because we live in a "whatever" world, in a way, we need to be a little less sure of ourselves. We need to be not as doctrinaire. There will be fewer “decisions at the altar” and more patience in process toward God. We will need to be less defensive and more engaging. Not engaging in a gracious milquetoast kind of way but more engaging in that we as Christians engage our "whatever" world to consider the reality of God and a relationship with him through Christ. The way of Christ is not a "whatever way". It is a narrow way, a focused way, and a way of freedom.

I know how easy it is to become disillusioned with the church. It is Satan's greatest tool. It has been one of my biggest battles. Somehow I think though, that Christians must live in community; a community where generations listen and learn from one another, grow together, and help people outside of faith come to faith in God.

I will be praying that you find such a community; or maybe even form such a community. Maybe your call to ministry is to gather a few searching, seeking Christian and or non-Christian people to figure out, if you haven't quite already, if the "whatever" lifestyle is legitimate, adequate, and true. I am convinced it is none of these.

Kind of rambling thoughts but we love you and are praying for you.